Internet “Discourse” Reaches Real Politics
Posted by StormWarning on 27 Feb 2008 at 06:08 am | Tagged as: Commentary, Current Affairs, Politics
EDITORIAL - DO NOT READ IF “STRAIGHT TALK” WILL OFFEND YOU
- OR -
“How To Win Friends and Influence People“
Well, now I’ve “done and gone it!” It appears that one of my trusted blogging friends has taken this post personally. I am truly sorry for that. Before anyone who follows the link from that post to here goes off believing what was written in that blogger’s post has merit or accurately depicted what I wrote, take a deep beath and think again (and please note that the blogger in question is unmentioned and unlinked)! This post (mine) addresses the singular question of Senator Obama’s name (Hussein) and whether the use of it by the talk show host, Cunningham (in whatever way and tone of voice he used it) was appropriate or not. Nothing else! Yet, the rejoinder in my blogging friend’s post alludes to a much broader objection than I could have inferred from reading my post. Therein lies one of the problems with this exchange (it is one-sided).
I do not proclaim to stifle “free speech,” nor do I reject what might be the “truth.” What I reject is innuendo. What I reject is blanketly calling people names and launching implications based on what amounts to be circumstantial evidence. I have seen no real evidence other than one blogger quoting another blogger (perhaps quoting another blogger) that Barack Obama is a Muslim, practicing or otherwise (many of these same people who make this statement were “concerned” over Governor Romney’s Mormonism as something that should be avoided in our POTUS). Is Obama a liberal Democrat. Yeah, I think he is. Is he as anti-American as some people, including my blogging buddy makes him out to be? Really? Please, spare me the pain of actually commenting on that allegation.
There are implications that Obama consorts with terrorists (in my blogging buddy’s posts and elsewhere), yet other than the fact that he was introduced by his predecessor to former members of the Weather Underground, this does not mean that he was consorting with a terrorist. Yet, those who take this information as fact and then run with it (to where one must consider) would have you believe that there is a continuing relationship between Ayers and Dohrn (to my knowledge there is not a continuing relationship). Damn it! I was a block or so away from the building that the Weather Underground accidently blew up in Greenwich Village in 1970. For that matter, I was then involved in preparations for the March on Washington, and involved in coordinating activities of local universities in the following months after the Kent State shootings. I guess that makes me a terrorist as well (come and get me “guys”).
Take it as you will. Or not. I have no intention of voting for Obama or any Democrat in the upcoming election. I voted for Senator McCain this morning in the primary election. Bloggers have influence over how other people think (this particluar blogger - my blogging buddy - is fancied as an information resource). That, either way, is a reality. There is always going to be a question of unsubstantiated “facts” and the use of contradictory sources in sequential posts. Contrary to the blogger friend in question, I will not link to the post in which this one is referenced (derisively I might add) and note that the blogger is unmentioned herein…I will not engage in such things with someone whose friendship I value and trust. Differences of opinion often occur, both in real life and in the blogosphere.
Such is life. Time will pass, as will this little “tiff” or difference of opinion. Those of you who followed this blogger’s post (note that the blogger is unmentioned) in which mine was mentioned, may actually get through this entire BOLDED section, and still conclude that I am full of shit…others before you have done so. If that is your conclusion, then “so be it.” I can’t do a thing about it. And to my friend, I say, “I guess that you’ve somehow proven your point.”
ORIGINAL POST: Very simply people, the days of decency in American political discourse are behind us because the indecency of discourse prevalent on the Internet has very clearly bled into real politics. I hear it or read it everyday. This devolving of American discussion is striking and it is upsetting. It shows the ignorance of those who use it, and detracts from the process itself.
McCain rebukes radio host for Obama talk
Radio talk show host Bill Cunningham’s mocking and harsh criticism of Democrat Barack Obama upstaged Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s rally today in Cincinnati.
If you think that its “cute” or appropriate, then you are as guilty as the next ignoramous. Among many things, John McCain is a gentleman. Consider that before you flame me…because anyone who does will simply be showing his or her ignorance.
A Host Disparages Obama, and McCain Quickly Apologizes
Responding to questions from reporters, Mr. McCain said he did not hear what Mr. Cunningham had said; when he arrived, Mr. Portman was on stage, he said.“Whatever suggestion that was made that was any way disparaging to the integrity, character, honesty of either Senator Obama or Senator Clinton was wrong,” Mr. McCain said. “I condemn it, and if I have any responsibility, I will take the responsibility, and I apologize for it.”
Mr. McCain called Mr. Obama a “man of integrity” and said he was someone he had come to know “pretty well and I admire.”
He also said that it was not appropriate to invoke Mr. Obama’s middle name.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you all think that the dirty politics, character assassination, innuendo, mudslinging, rhetoric, slurring is appropriate, then you are not only wrong, but you show your ignorance. If you resort to innuendo, to posting pictures dredged up by Matt Drudge and consider it to be constructive to the American political process, then I hope you lose your voter registration card. IMO, you are one of the people who is a poster child for requiring an IQ test to vote. If you don’t like what I’ve written, or if you take offense at it…too bad! Don’t read my stuff! You probably have too little of substance to offer anyway.
Obama’s campaign swiftly praised McCain’s comments. Spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement: “We appreciate Senator McCain’s remarks. It is a sign that if there is a McCain-Obama general election, it can be intensely competitive but the candidates will attempt to keep it respectful and focused on issues.”
Ladies and gentlemen. IMO, the broad reaching general ignorance of the American public is being shown by the lowest common denominator of language and discussion that not only pervades the Internet, but has clearly become acceptable in public. It can only bring to level of political discussion down to the gutter. All too many people are guilty. I’m proud of the way John McCain handled this situation. I’m proud to support a man of John McCain’s integrity and stature.
American political ignorance, McCain, Obama
Agree with your thoughts. Many are calling this his “Sister Souljah” moment, but McCain has never been shy saying stuff like this. Good for him. Using the Hussein thing is childish, just like Bill Cunningham.
Now, Obama had a chance to do the same in the debates regards the quasi-endorsement of a racist, and he tip-toed all around it, including not answering why his own church has praised this same man. I think the real straight talker is becoming evident.
And so, once again, we agree. Although I believe that Obama has finally repudiated Farakhan (sp?). I don’t place alot of credence (in fact, I place none) in all of the Internet chatter and fluff about Obama, his church, his “friends” in Kenya, his father’s religion, the picture of him in a turben etc. Its all nothing but the chaff left when people have nothing else to say. IMO of course. Then again, this is my blog, and everything is my opinion.
It trips me out that the people that I normally agree with are concentrating on those little things like the Somali garb and saying stuff like Barry Obama has no experience and no issues driven content. I simply read his books, they are chock full of his opinions and I vehemently disagree with his ideas.
I have been trying to post completely upon what he actually says without any of my normal screaming and cussing, this election is very serious to me.
And yet, you refer to Barak Obama as “Barry.” All elections are serious.
Stormwarning, Two Dogs did not call Barack Obama “Barry”, he was referring to those who do use that name.
I don’t like Cunningham, he’s a loudmouth and I never care for people who have to shout at me to get a point across.
However, Hussein IS Barack Obama’s middle name. He can’t get around it, and allowing McCain to refer to his given name as slanderous, doesn’t that seem a little strange?
Also, no matter what you say here in sluffing off Obama’s past connections — they do exist. They did happen. They are the truth. The connections to the Weather Underground folks, to the terrorists who set bombs on US soil, he never refute those because they are true.
So people are supposed to refrain from printing the truth now?
No, the truth is important. As in the past, we simply disagree on this. As for the Weather Undergound connection, its my understanding that he introduced to “them” by the person he succeed in the Illinois Senate.
The reference to his middle name is not slanderous. It is the implication of how that name is used and pronounced (or enunciated) that could be.
As for how TwoDogs used the name “Barry,” I refer to this post:
I believe those are his words.
On Two Dogs, my mistake.
You and I will have to disagree on some points, but the truth does matter, I never said it didn’t.
There is a creepy thing going on in this election. Somehow Obama is supposed to be off limits. The Left/Democrats/ whatever, can say, do, anything. Use any ugly name they want, call Bush and Rover Hitler, whatever … and that’s OK. But now with Obama, it’s hands off? What makes him so different, so special? Because he’s Black?
I would love to be able to vote for a Black man or woman, or a White woman, or Brown, or Yellow, whatever. But Obama is so liberal, so out there, so America hating, so … racist himself. This is a critical time for America and I do not want Obama elected. I think he is dangerous simply because of the direction he will lead this country, if for no other reason.
This does not change the situation. Yes we will have to disagree on certain things. Its the nature of things. I simply don’t see Obama through the same filter that you do. As we each have our own forums…etc.
[...] and sometimes, analysis. Yesterday, a “trusted friend,” took personal offense at a previous post of mine on the devolution of political discourse on the Internet into real life poli…, and proceeded to use it as an “example” in my friend’s terms (of something), and [...]
It’s troubling to see this gap developing on the right over Obama. While I denounced making an issue of his middle name, let me expand on my previous comment as to what may be going on here and why.
6 1/2 years ago we were attacked by people with Muslim names living amongst us. If in 1944 or even 1948 a man with a Japanese-sounding middle name was running for prez the population would have reacted negatively–right or wrong. Human nature. To have a guy with the middle name of Hussein reaching the finals for president during a global war on Muslim extremists is almost beyond belief and certainly a testimony to our country. But we can’t blind ourselves with political correctness.
Personally I think Obama’s subterfuge isn’t that he’s a closet Muslim but a hard left liberal. If anything his allegiances might be to old friends in the civil rights arena made evident by his church. His policy vis a vis the GWoT is amateurish but no different than almost any liberal you’d meet on a message board. McCain can use that against him without resorting to lowball tactics or race. Cut it to ribbons, matter of fact.
But make no mistake, Obama’s team will be trying to set up a stealth scenario where their candidate is insulated by his race. That’s what advisers are paid to do. The object is to win. The same will occur should Hillary steal the nomination from a female perspective. No matter what, McCain will be painted as the old white guy stuck in the past and nobody will file complaints against that.
But I think the sticking point is the racial thing. Maybe it’s a regional thing. Some folks assume us southerners are are all racists. There are racists down here, as many probably exist up north. But the conventional wisdom doesn’t assign racists to the north, so no one assumes they exist in any significant numbers. I’ve lived both places and can say that while people will easily label southerners as racists they will talk down about minorities from the other side of their mouth. When I lived around NYC there was a cross burning. Same when I lived in Cleveland. Maybe we have less qualms about talking about it down here, or maybe we ARE more racist due to the past but to me it’s the candidate’s agenda that counts more. The only way we can determine agenda is to look backwards at the past. If that involves racial figures, so be it.
Obama should have put 1000 miles between himself and Farrakhan but he made it only a few kilometers, which leads me to wonder about residual underlying feelings or loyalties for the man. Obama only criticized his anti-semetic comments but made no mention of the constant stream of anti-US government remarks he’s made. For once I’d like to hear Obama talk about hope wrt winning the war against Islamic extremism without blaming America for toppling a murderous dictator who was up to his elbows in terrorism. That would make me feel better, but until I do I’ll keep an open mind about the man but will not shy from digging into whatever exists in his past. I think we all probably feel similar (with nuanced differences) on this matter and hope everyone keeps blogging and continues to respect each other’s opinions.
I agree with you AC…on I think, all counts. But you see, that is why I am certain that I am not a Democrat…I couldn’t support John Kerry and I could never support either Clinton or Obama. And that has nothing to do with anyone’s name, sex or religion. Unfortunately there are some people for whom those become the reasons to vote or not vote for someone. Unfortunately, I see that as a reflection on those individuals.
Now, in the case of the “other person’s” respect or lack thereof for my opinions, I think that its obvious that its lacking. I haven’t really criticized that person’s work…I have commented often on different perspectives and on factual inconsistencies. But I haven’t ever held it up for ridicule. Differences of opinion will always occur. Thinking people will often disagree with another person. What I object to, and what I refuse to subject myself to, is having a post of mine referenced as something that it was not.
I have way too much work to do…way too many other venues to spend my time. Maybe my wife is right when she refers to this as “that damn blog!”
“that damn blog!”
Heh, I’ve heard the same about my golf and other assorted passions through the years. It’s always something!
Cheers
AC, I only wish that I had the time to go back to playing golf. There once was a time when I was a true 23 handicap. Now, who knows? Here I am in a place where I could essentially play 11 months a year and I haven’t played once in 2 years. What a waste!
Stormwarning, your non-golfing lifestyle is only a waste if you have purchased a golf club membership. I used to be an avid golfer until about 2 years ago. I used to play, during the season (remember I live in el Norte), 5 times a week. At the height of my playing prowess, my handicap was a tad lower than yours. But, I rarely play now; I don’t have the time. Last season I played less than 10 times. The speed of American life will soon relegate golf to the sport of the uber-wealthy (those who don’t have to work to eat) or the retired. Did you read the front page article in the NY Times a couple weeks ago about the “decline” of golf’s popularity? Some courses in the Metro NY area are thinking about breaking courses into 3 sides of 6 holes instead of 2 sides of nine holes.
When I last played golf in the Northeast, I was variably playing at Bethpage (not the Black course where a number of years ago, I had a 95) or the seaside links course on the South Shore. I’ve never broken 90.
Down “here” it is alot different. The greens fees are less expensive, carts are generally included, and many of the clubs, especially in the Winter Season (when the locals don’t like to play because the temps are in the 40’s-50’s) give you breakfast and lunch! I figure that with my long layoff (except for an occasional visit to the local driving range), I may have lost some of my bad habits, although I do hope that I’ve kept my nice little “left to right fade” (no, its not a slice!).