Long Island - Hurricane “What Ifs”
Posted by StormWarning on 18 Sep 2005 at 10:39 am | Tagged as: Science
In the meeting on Wednesday (9/14) I asked a question about evacuating Long Island. While I used the obvious problems of the New Orleans evacuation during Katrina as an example of a poor evac. plan, no one the expert panel (reps from DHS, NYS Homeland Security, both country’s OEMs and large government contractors) had an answer to how 2.3 million people would get off of LI in the event of a catastrophic terrorist attack involving CBRN weapons.
Essentially, by not answering the real question, or more specifically, by answering that "even" in the event of a Cat 4/5 hurricane, there wouldn’t be the kind of flooding that we saw in New Orleans, the panel was telling us that in the event of a CBRN attack and easterly winds, what we were to do was bend over and place our heads between our legs and "kiss it" goodbye! The 2.3 million people out here will be collateral damage, casualties of war…because as was proven back in the days leading up the closing of the Shoreham Nuclear facility, there is not way to evacuate Long Island (so ask yourself…what is the evacuation plan for your home town or region???). FWIW, everyone sitting near me, and those who knows me all later commented how ridiculously transparent the non-answer was, and how the panel has avoided answering the question.
But let’s examine the New Orleans parallel question for Long Island:
What if a massive hurricane hit LI?
Seaside areas safeguard themselves against possibility of a major storm, keeping in mind the aftermath of severe hurricane that hit LI in 1938
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lihurr184431865sep18,0,3372329.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
Mushrooming population and increasing development on Long Island’s South Shore could make a hurricane the magnitude of the 1938 storm even costlier in lives and property today.
Though beach fortification projects have long been undertaken to protect such communities as West Hampton Dunes, Quogue and Westhampton Beach - and the mainland fronted by those seaside villages - they probably couldn’t withstand the storm surge brought on by another Category 3 hurricane, experts say.
"The damage would be similar to what we’ve seen in coastal Mississippi, in beachfront cities like Gulfport, Biloxi and Pass Christian" after Hurricane Katrina, said Mike Wyllie, a meteorologist at the National Weather Service at Brookhaven National Laboratory in Upton. "A 15-foot wall of water could move inland and pretty much do extensive damage to everything in its way."
Though hurricanes of the intensity of Katrina are all but unheard of in the cooler Atlantic waters around Long Island, lesser storms still pose a significant threat, the experts say.
"In 1938, there wasn’t that much development along the South Shore of Long Island," Wyllie said. "The same storm today would be dramatically different. A Category 3 storm would do Category 4-type damage."
Floodwater could destroy communities as far north as Sunrise Highway along the South Shore, Wyllie said...
…"The barrier island system on the South Shore is our levee system," said Aram Terchunian, the West Hampton Dunes commissioner of wildlife protection. "Either we take care of it, or we’re going to be pulling bodies out of the bays."
[BTW, what they're talking about is not a levee system, but a barrier island system that is subject to the natural and yearly changes of erosion and sometimes build-up of sand. Mother Nature controls that, even if Man and the Army Corps of Engineers intercedes.]
If you wish to see something very scary (at least to anyone living on the south shore of Long Island) check out this website and play around with the animated maps that show the encroachment of the ocean onto the land area…
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/38hurricane/storm_surge_maps.html
And yup! a Cat. 3 would flood way north of where I live.






“Not for nothing” but there are homes as much as 1000 feet from any waterfront that have had flooded basements recently because of the incessant rain fall (record levels in the NY area), saturated ground, and a high water table.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=abp3E_ot9PJc&refer=us
Saturated Soil
Parts of the eastern U.S. are still saturated from record rainfall during the past few weeks, and many rivers and reservoirs are still swollen from storms over the weekend, the weather service said in a statement.
Some rivers and streams in New York’s lower Hudson Valley and in northeastern New Jersey are still full, and additional rainfall may cause them to overflow their banks, the weather service said. More than three inches of rain could fall in river basins in the Catskill and Berkshire mountains.
This has been the wettest October on record in New York’s Central Park, where records have been kept since 1881. So far, 14.37 inches had been measured through yesterday, beating the record of 12.97 inches in 1913, said Chris Vaccaro, a spokesman with the National Weather Service’s headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland.
October also ranks as the second-wettest month ever in Central Park, behind only September 1882, when 16.85 inches of rain fell.
The N’easter yesterday (10/25/05) from Wilma only added to an already saturated ground.
I want to know if there is any coordination for evacuation among nassau and suffolk county. For example, If I live in Mastic Beach, Freeport, or Long Beach what is the shelter that I am to report to in case of hurricane warning for a cat.3+.
Hey there Nick! Good question.
The Nassau and Suffolk County Emergency Preparedness people are coordinated…and they do work together. But when I attended the homeland security preparedness meeting referenced in the main post of this thread, it was readily apparent that there is no evacuation plan.
Frankly, I wouldn’t be worrying about what shelter you’d report to…its a matter of how you get off the Island. If you were out on LI directly after Sept. 11th, you’ll remember that we were all locked in.
My initial question was how Long Islander’s would get off of here if there was a chemical, biological or radiological attack in New York City. The non answer told me that there wasn’t really a plan to do so, and, at least in my opinion, we were going to be considered “collateral damage.”
Come back anytime. We’re neighbors.
I think it is clear that Long Island will be thwarted in any attempts to evacuate from a major hurricane. The reason is that there would only be an 12-18 hr. window, maximum, for any serious preparations to be initiated. Long Island’s doom is that unlike the Gulf or other areas along the coast, such as Carolina or Florida, government officials are unable to make an accurate watch/warning due to the track that NE storms often take.
I know there have been a 120 shelters that were made operational by the American Red Cross, but would this be enough time to be setup?
The residences along the south shore will be unable to be properly evacuated since supplies will run out real quick. In addition, there are many areas that have inadequate routes out. The main one that is of concern has to clearly be that of the Mastic-Mastic Beach-Shirley peninsula.
I wish there were some photos around of flooding in that area following the 1938 hurricane. I have seen only one in which the water did go as far as Neighborhood Rd. where an original Schultze’s Bar was located.
I have seen many S.L.O.S.H models of the potential flooding for any given hurricane to make landfall on Long Island. I did read in one supplement mady by Gaffney, et. al. 1997 that the flooding would be 3-4x as severe as that shown if Fire Island were to breach at certain locations. That would be severely devasting to any area along the south coast of Long Island.
Long time between comments Nick
However, since then, I’ve learned that there is no way off Long Island except by flotilla. There are no plans to adequately evacuate L.I. So, especially in the case of a CB or nuclear attack in NY City and the winds were from the East.
As for the Fire Island breach, do you remember about 10-15 years ago when Gilgo breached?